The FLDS (Fundamentalist Later Day Saints)

Everyone is aware of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints AKA the Mormons or the LDS with their crisply ironed white shirts and their magical underwear door knocking in pairs. Most people know the story of Joseph Smith visited by the archangel Moroni presenting the golden plates to be read with sear stones and transcribed before the golden plates disappeared. They are a Christian sect with some beliefs beyond what is normally expected from Christians including a multi-worlds multi gods cosmos, a Semitic origin for native Americans, polygamy (in the early days) and the baptism of the dead. I am thankful for the last one because I have found their giant family research database useful for my family research. These are the run of the mill Mormons we all know and love and probably like to laugh at occasionally. Not quite mainstream or really out of it either. Some other Christians may not consider Mormons to be “true” Christians but even so they do not register too high on the cultometre. The Mormons are just a bit amusing.

Fewer people are aware that beyond the run of the mill Mormons there exists a group of Mormons dialed up to 11 known as the Fundamentalist Later Day Saints or the FLDS. This group is way out there. Waaaaaaay way out there maxing out the cultometre.

One defining feature of Mormons in the 19th century was plural marriage. This issue of polygamy seems to have been the point of contention causing the FLDS to split off from mainstream Mormons. In the late 19th century the Mormons reversed the church’s position on polygamy and endorsed monogamy.

It seems to me that the behaviour of the FLDS mirrors exactly that of some animals. That is it is not the religious doctrine which causes the behaviour and beliefs of the FLDS such as polygamy. Rather it is deep brain behaviour borne of evolutionary psychology and rooted in pre-human ancestry which gives rise to the to the religious beliefs and practices.

The present leader is Warren Jeffs. He is like a dominant male of a lion pride. All the females are his and young males are chased away. This is exactly the behaviour of a lion pride. How does this relate to human society? Homo sapiens are imperfectly monogamous . The monogamy/polygamy tendency is related to the dimorphism of the species. For example in elephant seals the dimorphism is extreme and so is the polygamy. Most male elephant seals will never reproduce. However the “sneaky male” strategy as an alternative to the “alpha male” strategy can sometimes result in lower caste males reproducing. Waiting in the shallows off the beach for their chance. How successful either strategy is depends on the environmental context which will favour one or the other and keep a mix of both at an equilibrium. Lower caste males can have some reproductive advantages considering they do not get into fights as often and their numbers can overwhelm the dominance of the alphas. Baboon society is an interplay of competing factors in which different mating strategies can have an advantages at one time and can have a disadvantage at other times. Evolutionary fitness is often a game of “paper, rock scissors”. The possible complexities are nowhere better seen than in human society.

It is east to see where polygamous species become dimorphic. With males competing with each other size is an advantage. More muscle to shove aside other males. Additionally females will prefer larger males because they can protect both them and their offspring.

Lion society has a lower level of dimorphism than elephant seals but it is still present. Humans have a lower level of dimorphism again. Humans have a number of mating strategies but in general can be described as “imperfectly monogamous”. With humans we can certainly see the “sneaky male” strategy. In fact much of the “crime and punishment” hysteria may stem from an ancient pre-human deep brain repertoire being a “dominant male” “protecting” his females being directly his wife, daughters and by sympathetic extension all women in the “in” tribe from marauding males outside. Activating this ancient repertoire is always a sure vote winner for political candidates. Male voters naturally want to protect their “harem” being their wives and daughters and this instinct can encompass a degree of racism, conscious or unconscious. Female voters want a “strong leader” who will “protect” them and their offspring. Ultimately this instinct can scale all the way up to war, genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Most people may be alarmed at the excesses of Warren Jeffs and the FLDS may be to the point of invoking the same protective instinct in them as Warren Jeffs and the FLDS community as a whole feel. They see religious fundamentalism, pederasty and cult like control of the members and understandably so. What most people fail to realize is the extant of biology at play. Yes there is a power crazed leader and the pederasty and the cultish control but this is playing out not because of a crazed religious environment. Rather the environment emerges because deeper and darker biological repertoires are at work and the FDLS is a result of the madness and not the cause.

Genghis Khan – The Alpha Male of all Alpha Males Ever

Genghis Khan

The Genghis Khan Monument near Ulan Batar in Mongolia

We have all heard about  Genghis Khan emperor conquered a vast territory and and established a huge empire. He had a reputation for genocide and also for his prolific fathering. Today the great khan has a total of 16 million Y chromosome descendants or 0.5% of all males globally. The size of the monument of the good Khan pictured above does indeed reflect his genetic contribution to the human gene pool.

This was the conclusion of a study described in the National Geographic. This is an extraordinary progeny. But these 16 million men carrying Genghis Khan’s Y chromosome does not even begin to describe demographics of his genetic heritage.

In fact the 16 million men who share Genghis Khan’s Y chromosome are only a tiny percentage of all the descendants of Genghis Khan. Simple arithmetic makes this clear.

I will assume the reader is male. If in fact you the reader is female then consider yourself a honorary male for the purposes of this thought experiment.

How many biological parents do you have? Two is the usual answer. I will use the notation 2^x. Two parents would be 2^1. Yourself are generation 0. There is just one of you or 2^0.

How parents have your Y chromosome? One of two, 1 in two or 1/2^1 at the -1 generation.

How many grandparents do you have? Four or 2^2. How many of your grandparents have your Y chromosome? One of four, or 1/2^2 at the -2 generation.

How many great grandparents do you have? Eight or 2^3.  How many of your great grandparents have your Y chromosome? One of eight, or 1/2^3 at the -3 generation.

How many great great grandparents do you have? Sixteen or 2^4. How many of your great great grandparents have your Y chromosome? One of sixteen , or 1/2^4 at the -4 generation.

If we go back to the -10 generation we have 2^10 ancestors or 1,024 at that level. How many of these ancestors have your Y chromosome? 1/2^10. One of 1,024. Another way to look at this is to ask of all a man’s descendants at +10 generations into the future will have his Y chromosome? The is 1/2^10. About 1 in a thousand of his descendants at the +10 generation will have his Y chromosome.

The next question to ask how many generations have passed since Genghis Khan? It is not possible to know this. If 20 generations have passed then the total number of descendants including both Y chromosome descendants and non Y chromosome descendants alike will be 16 million multiplied by 10^20 or about one million. That is 16 trillion descendants at the +20 generation level. If 30 generations have passed then the total number increases to 16 quadrillion. 16,000,000 X 2^30 (1 billion).

These are impossible numbers and obviously many descendants of Genghis Khan have married many other descendants of Genghis Khan. These would not likely include Europeans or Africans. Large areas of Asia however would be descendants pretty well down to the last one. The 16 million Y chromosome descendants does not tell the whole story of the Khan’s legacy.

At this point the ancestor paradox becomes obvious. That is the number of ancestors increases exponentially with each generation back so that your number of ancestors exceeds the world’s population with fewer than 30 generations into the past. 2^30 is approximately 1 billion. The world’s population only exceeded 1 billion people in 1804. For someone like myself with English, Scottish, Cornish and Irish ancestry this really means I am descended from every reproducing person alive in Britain at the time of Edward I and probably most of Europe as well. This would include Edward I himself down to the lowest peasant. One and only one of these will be my Y chromosome ancestor.

Asian males living in the time of Genghis Khan would on average have hundreds of millions of descendants living today or perhaps billions but would have only between 10 to 20 Y chromosome descendants today.

The behaviour of Genghis Khan very anomalous indeed. The alpha male of all alpha males ever. “Kill all the men and rape all the women” certainly describes him. He killed about 10% of the world’s population at the time including half of the population of China. This is deeply biological behaviour turned up to ten. Maximising his genetic advantage. No animal in the wild would garner such an advantage on such a scale but humans can capitalise on simple technology to greatly magnify their natural mating advantages or perhaps even supplants natural disadvantages. In this way slightly dimorphic homo sapiens can exert a polygamous advantage like that of male elephant seals.

Social constructs can not alone explain this sort of behaviour. It is the genes of Genghis Khan which benefit from this behaviour and it is the genes which drives this behaviour. The Mongol Empire was an alpha male’s way of propagating his genes or more precisely the alpha male’s genes’ way of propagating themselves.

In Genghis Khan we see analogues of animal behaviour. This we can expect because homo sapiens are animals. Apes actually. We have have inherited our behaviour from evolutionary ancestors. We did not lose our biological inheritance at the neck up. A lion pride is a well known example of a polygamous species. Humans are not as polygamous as lions but in the record of the the great khan we do see an example which exceeds the norm for human males. With basic technology human alpha males have vastly exceeded what would be expected by the degree of dimorphism in humans.

A male lion pride owner has the job of propagating himself and protecting such progeny with his life if necessary. If his mating rights are overthrown by a younger stronger male lion the first job at hand is the killing or chasing away the old lion followed by killing his progeny in a very bloody affair. This is Genghis Khan, Jacob, David, Solomon and the sultans and emperors of various empires through history with their harems and frequently bloody successions. For the human alpha the animal behaviour is shielded probably even from the alpha male himself behind a lot nationalistic, moral ennobling or religious spin doctoring.

Examples like Genghis Khan illustrate the importance of biology in human biology and that is at odds with the social construct model of human behaviour. A Genghis Khan can not be socially constructed. A Genghis Khan is energised from deeper levels. The cerebral cortex does not create him as much as filter deeper instincts with some culture and a good justifying story for the expression of those instincts culturally shaped though they may be. We will realise darker angels of our nature in unexpected ways if we continue to deny the importance of the biological.

Racism, a conjecture on the origin, reasons for its persistence and advice on living with it.

This blog post is not directly related to feminism but the issue of blinkered sociology and the social sciences vizaviz evolutionary psychology is also an issue for feminism. It is based on another social media post.

All people have the potential to be racist. It’s an instinct to fear what is different. We do not learn racism contrary to what is gospel according to social scientists and sociologists. It comes from evolutionary psychology. It is really genetic competition. Sometimes it manifests in ways that are not directly related to genes or are only slightly related to genes like prejudice to other languages, ethnic groups, religious beliefs or cultures. In these instances the same instinct is misdirected but on average it will work to favour own genes. On who or what it operates is determined by the size of your circle of empathy which can include your family, your tribe, your town, your country, your race, human beings as a whole or even other species, thus pets. That empathy circle can expand or contract in time and dependant on stresses in your environment.

Social scientists and activists sometimes claim that “under privileged” classes can not be racist and thus their loathing of “whites”, “men”, “cis gendered” and other “privileged” groups is not really “prejudice”  or “hate”. This is self serving double think and ideological exceptionalism and it is very dangerous nonsense. Imperial powers are often guilty of exceptionalism. Social scientists have no idea of what motivates us in behaviour or our likes and dislikes. The social sciences have been poisoned by ideology. This is the victory of irrationality over rationality.

So what can we do? It helps to realise we are captive to our biology but that our basic biology does not have to be us. We reproduce not to ensure OUR immortality. No, we reproduce to ensure the immortality of our GENES but we are not our genes. We, each of us are just flowering parts of our genomes and our instincts. Biologically influenced behaviours are in the interest of a lower based entity which is not us. Each of us are really vehicles carrying our genes as passengers. When the vehicle wears out the passengers will abandon the wreck and continue their journey in other vehicles. We ourselves will be extinct. We feel good with the release of brain chemicals when our behaviour enables our reproduction. By viewing ourselves as less than we are biologically, then we can lessen our potential to do evil than we can when we are held hostage to the darker angels of our nature. By having a lower level of investment in our biological selves we can gain insight into our nature as both good and evil at the same time and also feel less inclination and act on our darker angels.

One last thing about racism to remember is that it is the other side of racism is the protective instinct. The protective instinct is actually a manifestation of the “selfish gene” and comes from the same place as racism and other forms of prejudice. That is why in war time propaganda focuses on protecting women and babies. It is why WWI propaganda animation showed a Hun squashing a baby under an iron boot. It is why in 1990 we had the lie of Iraqi soldiers turning off humidi-cribs in Kuwaiti hospitals was propagated in the lead up to the first Gulf War. The desire to protect very easily becomes the desire to hate. By appealing to the best in us leaders can make us do the worse to others. Even the author of Matthew used a baby slaughter to sell the biblical nativity story. There was no war in the context of the bible story but the author of Matthew clearly knew how to pull the heart strings of his readers.

All this brings us to other loyalties and chauvinisms. Chauvinism is only a hair’s breadth away from hate. One such is patriotism but patriotism is love for a temporary formation. Nations are like clouds in the sky. Their form is always shifting. If we become emotionally invested in one cloud formation we will be disappointed within seconds. This is the nature of so many insecurities concerning migration, language use and religious affinity. An emotional attachment to what was never going to be for very long and which leads to frustrations of the type manifesting as racism among other isms.

Misincelry or Hatred of Incels

We all understand the terms misogyny and misandry. The basic definitions are given below.

Misogyny – The hatred of women.

Misandry – The hatred of men.

The first one is found in standard dictionaries but the latter is not found in most dictionaries. The last word was in use before the Mens Rights Movement and even probably before second wave feminism.  This is why I have not quoted the definitions  from a dictionary reference. One is recognised by standard dictionaries and the other is not. Such is the power of feminists to put pressure on to others that even dictionaries will bend to their demands. I am coining a new term – misincelry or hated of incels . First some more definitions.

Incel – Short for Involuntary celibacy. Someone who in spite of a desire for sexual intimacy is sexually celibate. About 2/3 or more of incels are men. I believe that this gender imbalance of men over women in incel numbers is explained by a biological tendency towards hypergamy of females towards males, the desire of women to marry upwards. This means a greater number of sexually frustrated and unmatched males than is the case for females. It is not an officially recognised term in therapy.  Related terms are love shyness and true forced loneliness.

Vocel – Voluntary celibacy for whatever reason. The opposite of incel. The vocel may be asexual and not have any desire for a sexual relationship or may have have chosen to refrain from acting on his/her sexual desires for religious or other reasons. It may be for a finite period such as before marriage or it may be life time decision such as being a member of a religious order or being tired of sexual relationships in general.

Asexual – A type of vocel. The person has no desire for a sexual relationship or from Wikipedia, “ is the lack of sexual attraction to anyone, or low or absent interest in sexual activity“.

Hypergamy – The tendency of women to marry above their own position or at least at their own level. A male doctor will be more likely to marry a female nurse than a female doctor is to marry a male nurse.

True Forced Loneliness – Similar to incel in that they have no success in relationships. As good as a synonym. The term was coined by Bill Greathouse. From is this definition “…. areforced” to be alone because they perceive other women (or men in some cases) to be rejecting them….”

Misincelry – Hatred of incels as defined above.

I have noticed an impatience, frustration, judgement, shaming, belittling and insulting of incels from men and women and very frequently from feminists, very often from the same feminists who criticise men and non-feminist women for ” impatience, frustration, judgement, shaming, belittling and insulting” women”. This is similar to feminists complaining about being “silenced” and then shouting down their critics to the point of ruining careers.

I don’t think this comes down simple rudeness or social blinkers although these things do figure. I believe evolutionary psychology explains much of what is observed in misincelry as well as bullying, racism, homophobia and transphobia. This is where sociologists and especially those of  a strong ideological bent are opposed to evolutionary psychology.

In my post on Oppressive Etiquette I gave the examples of Japan and the US south under the Jim Crow laws. Today feminists are exercising the same requirements for etiquette from men towards women as whites required from blacks under Jim Crow.

This is all the more onerous for men with autism or Asperger‘s syndrome who are more likely than average to be incels and for men who are generally more socially awkward. Feminists on Jezebel and Wehuntedthemammoth web sites take pleasure in shaming in rubbishing incels. One is reminded of school yard bullies. In this case however our feminist messiahs must place themselves on the side of “good” and to that end construct complicated narratives to make their victims the “villains”. Projected hate. A classic example of DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender).

This is an extension of the sport of shaming men in general which many women (not limited to feminists) feel free to indulge in a way which would not tolerated if the target was black, Asian, Jewish or of some other demographic minority. This is a way to express the same dark angels of our nature in language which is approved by the cerebral cortex and society collectively. Take a look at this quote by Julie Burchill.

Julie Burchill2

I have substituted Jews for men and Nazis for feminists to see how similar to extreme racist rhetoric is to that of radical feminists. This is not an isolated example. Women and feminists of the non-radical variety, the so called NAFALT (not all feminists are like that) either put their heads in the sand when confronted with this rhetoric or they become offended, not for the men put down and insulted but for the implication that all feminists are like that. After making clear that ALL men must take responsibility for the outrage of Elliot Roger these feminists are quick to distance themselves from any responsibility for their ugly sisters. Double standards as usual.

So to describe the penchant of feminists and many non-feminist women, (joined in by many men happy to impress women with their bullying prowess) to kick incels in the teeth and do do so with relish I have coined the term misincelry. There is no way to control others so that they will nor shame us but we can control our reaction to just shaming. This applies to all shammed males, not just to incels. I will make another post about this called Shamtrinos in the future.

Ladies and Gentlemen Choose Your Hysteria

We live in an age of escalating hysterias. Beside “rape culture” and related feminist hysterias men and women can choose we can choose today from “stranger danger”, the “war on drugs”. the “war on terror”, the “crime and punishment hysteria”  and “helicopter parents” (because there’s a paedophile behind every pole and around every corner).  In the past we could choose “satanic ritual abuse”, “alien abduction” or “multiple personality disorder”. Further back in history we could choose the “the red scare”. “McCarthyism” or back far enough we could choose “witch hunts”. There’s a hysteria for every need and every age.

Where does it come from. It seems to be episodic. Society functions for a while without a major panic but a switch is thrown with the correct alignment of social and cultural factors. Once switched on these hysterias seem to take a collective animal life of their own. My untested hypothesis is that this behaviour touches on the deeply biological in the primeval regions of the brain.

In our brains are repertoires of reactions which are triggered by environmental stimuli and these mostly lay dormant until activated. These are like emergency fire drills which are enacted in the event of a fire. How to react and what to do is automatic. Most of the time the “red hat” hangs on a hook unused. These are adaptations with obvious survival advantages which predates humanity and possibly mammals. As humans separated from the other apes our cerebral cortex exploded in size but it did not replace the older lymbric systems in our brain. In fact the cerebral cortex rationalises our deeper instincts as they manifest in justifications. Racism is simply genetic competition but was once rationalised into race theories with agendas like eugenics as the result. Today these instincts can also be maladaptive in particular situations where our environment differs from the natural environment we evolved in. Reactions such as flight, fight or freeze in response to danger.  The advantages of the first 2 are obvious and analogues in today’s circumstances are easy to  to imagine. The last one is less obvious. Yet in nature this is a common reaction to danger. A deer freezes on the approach of a large cat and becomes less visible to predators who are attuned to movement, especially if camouflage is also part of the prey animal’s defences. An analogue in contemporary life would be ignoring bills which need to be paid as the human animal enacts this repertoire of behaviour from a deep biological past. It is irrational to think that the metaphorical wolf at the door will pass if we just ignore him and freeze.  Some may remain dormant for an entire life but it may be that at least some must be exercised at various times. Some of these repertoires will come to the fore of our consciences.  We know how to be frightened, panicked, joyful, depressed, confidant, vigilant, optimistic or pessimistic and so on.  We know how to feel and react when bullied, humiliated and “put in our place”.

You may wonder what possible evolutionary advantages can there be to being depressed or pessimistic. Back in the cave days of cold winters, little game prey and short days a claustrophobic environment of a cave for most of winter could be depressing. This means we would not be motivated to venture outside or do anything very much  which is  the best response in that environmental context. A reduced food supply and extreme weather are not the ideal circumstances in which to feel highly motivated and energetic. Time instead to tell stories, make music and paint on the cave walls. It is interesting that today creative people like artists and writers are frequently prone to depression. To be optimistic may be fruitful in one environmental context but delusional and dangerous in another context because optimism is really a special sort of delusion. The positive psychology writer Martin Seligman is the normalisation of a potentially dysfunctional delusion and something. It is a Procrustes straitjacket for all people in all circumstances as has been described by Barbara Ehrenreich in her book How Positive Thinking Fooled America and the World. In fact it has been determined that the colour blue of the sky has a special effect on the brain, a claiming cheerful effect and a slight feeling of well being. A blue sky signals it’s time to get active and go outside and do things. Time to make it all happen. We all know this effect. In its exaggerated form in some people it gives rise to “seasonal affective disorder” and is known by the rather apt acronym of SAD. Nature doesn’t care that we feel happy all the time. Only that we reproduce and behave in a way to maximise our chances of reproducing.

We all know how to feel as victims. This is in direct contradiction of the consensus narrative of victimhood by feminists and other theorists. That is one can not identify with the suffering of another in a less privileged circumstances or or a particular class of people. That without direct experience of racism or sexism no one can identify with the experience. I propose instead that the feelings stemming from these deprecating and humiliating experiences are not made by experiences but are already present and waiting to be activated as already pre-existing realities in the primal areas of our brains. This is not created simply because of the existence of power relationships but is a repertoire which is realised when activated. We can learn a second language, an occupational skill or a musical instrument but we do not learn how to feel bullied or feel discriminated against. For this reason victim cards are counterfeit licences to exclude other opinions.

An extreme behaviour triggered the environment is post traumatic stress syndrome (PTSD).  MRI scans show that people with PTSD have signatures of physical changes in the brain in common. PTSD is an extreme expression of a repertoire which is in effect etched into the brain a bit like an image burned on to a screen which has bot been refreshed. Nature doesn’t care for our personal comfort, only that we reproduce. The resulting dysfunctionality manifesting in society is useful for surviving for example an attack by a woolly rhino or a battle ground where a bullet may end your life any minute. The continuation of fear, the suspicion, the paranoia, heightened vigilance and the acting out aggressively in non threatening circumstances is maladaptive, automatic and difficult or impossible to turn off post the event.  A miserable survivor can still reproduce and that for evolution is the point.

Add to this the needs of humans and the exploded cerebral cortex. I believe humans have a biological need to solve problems, another repertoire which is often activated. The advantages are obvious as witnessed by improvements in our lives but just as all other repertoires can cause problems so this important repertoire can become a compulsive dysfunctional habit with societal consequences in macro. Once we start hunting for solutions we also go hunting for problems for those solutions. To a hammer everything looks like a nail. Thus in medicine we improved general health not only because we need to solve many health problems and because we have learned and applied much knowledge to that end but because we actually biologically need to solve problems as a species. The repertoire once activated wants to continue activating. Thus as we make our lives better we also simultaneously retire a problem to gnaw at, frustrating our will to solve problems and our hunger for drama. Think of a rodent who needs to gnaw with his teeth or else the teeth will become too long to function. Medical malpractice indemnity excesses and helicopter parents do not come down so much to opportunistic lawyers or government regulation gone overboard although there is a lot of that, but rather because our need for drama attaches itself to whatever can fill the vacuum. No longer afflicted with childhood diseases and childhood deaths this is a repertoire hammer in need of a nail. The result can be a society which feels quiet stifling, claustrophobic  and oppressive. We feel like animals in a zoo and in truth this is what humans have become. We can not ever leave the zoo of our own making because the habitat outside of it is no longer there.  We do not become happier in the absence of problems; we only become emptier. This human zoo is the stage on which our mind repertoires are played out and played out quiet inappropriately. This creates all sorts of anxieties on to which many panics can latch on to and which advertisers are well placed to exploit. Our present era is one of great improvements although it is possible this will not last. In summary humans were designed to build utopia but they were not designed to live there. The tragic ape indeed. A comedy of creation.

In the episodic waxing and waning of hysterias something similar happens. The age of witch hunts was not an age free from desperate problems although as always some few were very comfortable. It did still see cycles of manias in communities as if something very dark was periodically activated. We see this with religious fundamentalism, Marxism, Nazism and feminism with their potential for panic to escalate to include an ever widening circle of threats. Once the initial “enemies” being the convenient problem needing resolution have been exiled, imprisoned or killed ideologies need to invent an even more vaguely defined group of “enemies”.  During the witch trials of 17th century in Germany Frederick von Spee observed that those who called most loudly for the trials were eventually entangled themselves because they did not realise that their turn would come. See my blog  post on this very courageous 17th Jesuit priest.

What does this have to do with the subject of my blog. Perhaps an understanding of the irrationality of feminism and why it looks like religious fundamentalism. It looks like fundamentalism because that is what it is. If you have not yet had the accusing finger of feminism pointed at you yet, don’t worry your turn will come.

The process of idealogical escalation of paranoia is described by Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) as per the Wiki entry at….

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

It is for this reason I am glad I would not be going to heaven if it existed. Just like earthly utopias it would be a disaster.